Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin
Doom9 contributors break BD+ (doom9.org)
27 points by jwilliams on Nov 2, 2008 | hide | past | favorite | 11 comments


a summary of what i understood all this to mean:

bd+ uses a virtual machine built into a player to load an encryption scheme on a per disc basis. so the folks at doom9 were able to deduce the extents of the vm (input/output/throughput, etc) and subsequently map out the input (encrypted instructions + disc data = input). Then, by comparing the output of the (functioning) vm with the input, they were able extract specific keys with which a (single) disc was encrypted. to make this applicable across many discs that presumably do not reinvent their entire encryption scheme with every new release, they began looking for commonalities and built a conversion table that, up to page 17, is now being standardized into a packaged utility that can apply to any disc that can be decoded given their table.

it's an interesting example of collaborative code breaking. as one poster said - this would make a great movie - though the audience might be a little smaller than the next bond and blu-ray not distribution format of choice.


The only modification I'd make to this is, where you wrote, "deduce the extent of the VM", I'd write, "deduce enough of the extent of the VM to play a subset of disks". There's no evidence that Doom9 has taken a lead over Slysoft, and even less evidence that Doom9 has a "class break" of all of BD+.

It is notable though that this is an open source effort. I'm not sure who to cheer for. =)


Two things stuck me reading this list.

1) Wow, there are some really talented people working on cracking Blue Ray discs. I surely wish we could channel some of that talent toward something more productive than making a copy of "Die Hard 4".

2) The futility of the effort of those trying to copy protect the media is even more striking than I had imaged. They just have no chance at all of ever winning.


Fascinating to see such a massive collaborative problem solving process, and don't worry, I am sure a lot of those posters are in their late teens through to early twenties, learning heaps doing this highly motivating (watch movies!) and creative thinking task.

As for the futility of protecting content, it just reinforces the impression that the media companies are run by dinosaurs. Blu-Ray's licensing scheme is designed not to bring hd movies to the customer in the most effective and marketable way, but by consensus between lawyers and middlemen.


It's hard to see how BD+ is really hurting the average Blu-Ray consumer. Most people don't copy their DVDs. Meanwhile, all BD+ needs to do to earn its keep is win a week or two of lead time for the most important titles.


The per-title ($3000) and per-player (not sure) licensing fees add up, as do the fees just to put a "blu-ray" label on the disc. As does the cost of building a player that has to be powerful enough to decode not just the HD content (what the consumer wants) but to treat the user like a criminal (what the studios want). Chips are not free.


Blu Ray players cost ~$200-250. Standard def DVD players cost more when they hit the mainstream. There are strong arguments against BD+, but this isn't one of them.


This isn't really saying much. Slysoft "broke" BD+ a while ago. Then they "broke" it again, and "again" after that. Each time they "break" it, Macrovision revs up the protection code and "breaks" Slysoft.

Slysoft is far ahead of Doom9 in this effort, and they get paid to do it. There are disks today that AnyDVD still can't play.

Both Slysoft and Doom9 are emulating the BD+ VM. It is obviously possible to emulate any instruction set architecture. The question is, can they emulate the VM and all its (undocumented) platform features perfectly, so that no protection code can discriminate between the emulator and the real thing? So far, the answer is "no", and therefore, so far, BD+ remains "unbroken" in the most meaningful sense.


Unfortunately, the people doing the real work say very little about how they figured it all out.


Yes, having a full description of the process would have been interesting.


1. Look at problem

2. Think really hard

3. Write down solution

(Worked for Feynman!)




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: